Is 2013-Allen the greatest team in TXHSFB history?

[SumDude]

IMO, Kyler Murray is the greatest football player in TXHSFB history. That team also had a massive amount of skill players at WR and RB, a D1 collegiate offensive line (maybe the best OL in TXHSFB history), and one of the best defenses in recent memory. Seriously, they averaged about 51 ppg and gave up only 18 ppg. They slaughtered the D2 champion, Cedar Hill, and beat the breaks off of pretty damn good Southlake Carroll. They also beat a Spring Westfield team that could easily compare to some of the greatest and most athletic champions in TXHSFB history (88-Carter, 85-Yates, 90-Aldine). And, then there's the tough win over a Desoto team that I would say may be the best team to not win a title. I'd put that Desoto team over any team (period) in TXHSFB history prior to the SLC teams of the mid 00's.

It's not just about D1 talent. It's also about a team that exploited other teams weaknesses and flat-out destroyed some damn good teams.

Are they the greatest? If not, who had the guns to offensively go one-on-one and a defense to stop or slow that Allen team down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9RO_Q80w6s

[svhorns]

Paging Farmer.

[Farmer]

They were a nice team for sure but I wouldn't rank them over 2002 or 2005 Carroll, 2003 Shore, 2006 Cedar Hill or 2000 and 2007 Katy.

[SumDude]

They were a nice team for sure but I wouldn't rank them over 2002 or 2005 Carroll, 2003 Shore, 2006 Cedar Hill or 2000 and 2007 Katy.

Interesting!

2002-2006-SLC - I could see them going toe-to-toe w/ the 2013-Allen team. They had ELITE passing games and their defenses were very tough.

2003-North Shore - I think their defense was great, however they NEVER faced a team remotely close to Allen. Kyler and Allen saw plenty of "athletic" speed teams (CHILL, Westfield, Horn, Desoto).

2006-Cedar Hill - A ton of D1 talent, but their passing game wasn't very good. Cole ran for 3k yards and 42 of his 63 TDS were on the ground. I see a good game, but I just can't see CHILL winning.

2000-Katy - Very strong team. I think the lack of an elite passing attack does them in. Also, I think Allen's defense was better than 00-Katy's defense.

2007-Katy - Best defense in Katy history… bar-none. I think THIS team would've given Allen a game because they were strong at stopping the run and pass. Their offense was potent, too BLM and Dean!!

Good call!

[Farmer]

Interesting!

2002-2006-SLC - I could see them going toe-to-toe w/ the 2013-Allen team. They had ELITE passing games and their defenses were very tough.

2003-North Shore - I think their defense was great, however they NEVER faced a team remotely close to Allen. Kyler and Allen saw plenty of "athletic" speed teams (CHILL, Westfield, Horn, Desoto).

2006-Cedar Hill - A ton of D1 talent, but their passing game wasn't very good. Cole ran for 3k yards and 42 of his 63 TDS were on the ground. I see a good game, but I just can't see CHILL winning.

2000-Katy - Very strong team. I think the lack of an elite passing attack does them in. Also, I think Allen's defense was better than 00-Katy's defense.

2007-Katy - Best defense in Katy history… bar-none. I think THIS team would've given Allen a game because they were strong at stopping the run and pass. Their offense was potent, too BLM and Dean!!

Good call!

You and I view the 2000 Katy team a bit different. Nothing at all wrong with that either. I don't know what you consider elite it to be an elite passing team at Katy but I view the 2000 team as probably the most balanced that Katy may have ever had to win a state title. Jamel Branch at RB, Keith Mouton at WR and Jared Kasparov at QB were very formidable and they were anchored on the OL by 2-3 all stay type players.

After witnessing what 03 Shore did to Danny Amadola and an h defeated Woodlands team solidifies their spot with 05 Carroll as one of the best of all time. I'm not sure Allen would have been able to run at all against that front.

My opinion of course and it's an interesting conversation because that 2013 Allen team is a special one

[dada]

Interesting!

2002-2006-SLC - I could see them going toe-to-toe w/ the 2013-Allen team. They had ELITE passing games and their defenses were very tough.

2003-North Shore - I think their defense was great, however they NEVER faced a team remotely close to Allen. Kyler and Allen saw plenty of "athletic" speed teams (CHILL, Westfield, Horn, Desoto).

2006-Cedar Hill - A ton of D1 talent, but their passing game wasn't very good. Cole ran for 3k yards and 42 of his 63 TDS were on the ground. I see a good game, but I just can't see CHILL winning.

2000-Katy - Very strong team. I think the lack of an elite passing attack does them in. Also, I think Allen's defense was better than 00-Katy's defense.

2007-Katy - Best defense in Katy history… bar-none. I think THIS team would've given Allen a game because they were strong at stopping the run and pass. Their offense was potent, too BLM and Dean!!

Good call!

I like the 2012 and 2014's Defense over 2007 on total points allowed. 2014 had 5 shutouts and 5 more games were the shutout was broken up late in the 4th once all starters were gone. Offensively though....2007 Katy didn't have a weakness. Bo Levi Mitchell at QB would eat you alive...Aundre Dean at RB...even the special teams...Ryan Dooer was one of the best HS punters I've seen....an awesome weapon to have. They also had two shutdown corners in Frederick and Henry..would've gave Allen a run for their money. Also 2013 Allen seemed vunerable against the run....a good ball control offense like 07 Katy may have been their kryptonite

[pied]

What I don't understand is why we are making the arguement of "ELITE passing games" . To me, it's always execution > system. The only difference is total unfamiliarity. To that end, I think the 96 Lewisville team would be pretty salty.

Best teams I've seen in no particular order(and ability to add more later):

'05-07 SLC
'91 Permian
'90 Aldine
'95 Marcus


All time everywhere, I'd probably included the '04 Colerain and at least one of the DLS streak teams.

[Farmer]

What I don't understand is why we are making the arguement of "ELITE passing games" . To me, it's always execution > system. The only difference is total unfamiliarity. To that end, I think the 96 Lewisville team would be pretty salty.

Best teams I've seen in no particular order(and ability to add more later):

'05-07 SLC
'91 Permian
'90 Aldine
'95 Marcus


All time everywhere, I'd probably included the '04 Colerain and at least one of the DLS streak teams.

The 92 Temple team is up there too with that backfield of Dealrious Wildon and Gerald Watson. Team was loaded and very good.

I know Sum mentioned Desotonas possibly being the best team to never win a state title and since they are fresh on our mind he may have a very valid point. Those teams were good no doubt but I would not put them within 14 points of 95 Marcus and I also think 95 SA Roosevelt would have done a pretty good job of shutting down 2013 Allen

[pied]

Saw that '92 Temple team as well. Very stout. Didn't they lose a regular season game. Also need to throw in a Judson team, thinking ~ '93 . Used to be able to see some good games in Austin around that time period.

[Farmer]

Saw that '92 Temple team as well. Very stout. Didn't they lose a regular season game. Also need to throw in a Judson team, thinking ~ '93 . Used to be able to see some good games in Austin around that time period.

1993 Judson was probably the best of the Judson title teams. I sure was glad Lewisville went division 2 in 1993.

1992 Temple did lose, I believe they lost to Killeen that year if memory serves me right.

[SumDude]

You all named some great teams. Those Judson and Lewisville teams were excellent (hard running games and tough-nosed defenses). Temple and Killeen were cornfed studs! The 95 Roosevelt and Marcus example was good, too. I think the weather played a factor for Roosevelt defeating the passing attack of FMM. Having said all of this, Murray went 43-0 and led Allen to three titles as a starter. He beat teams that were as potent or more potent than all of these teams. In all honesty, (2012) Houston Lamar, Mesquite, Skyline, Desoto, (2013) SLC, CHILL, Coppell, Horn, The Woodlands, Westfield, Desoto, Pearland, (2014) Guyer, Dutch Fork, Desoto, Martin, ET, Skyline are all teams that would go toe-to-toe with the teams that have been named in this thread. Murray and Allen beat them all! He never lost. I just don't see any of those teams stopping the Allen offense over the past three years, let alone in 2013.

[Farmer]

You all named some great teams. Those Judson and Lewisville teams were excellent (hard running games and tough-nosed defenses). Temple and Killeen were cornfed studs! The 95 Roosevelt and Marcus example was good, too. I think the weather played a factor for Roosevelt defeating the passing attack of FMM. Having said all of this, Murray went 43-0 and led Allen to three titles as a starter. He beat teams that were as potent or more potent than all of these teams. In all honesty, (2012) Houston Lamar, Mesquite, Skyline, Desoto, (2013) SLC, CHILL, Coppell, Horn, The Woodlands, Westfield, Desoto, Pearland, (2014) Guyer, Dutch Fork, Desoto, Martin, ET, Skyline are all teams that would go toe-to-toe with the teams that have been named in this thread. Murray and Allen beat them all! He never lost. I just don't see any of those teams stopping the Allen offense over the past three years, let alone in 2013.

Murray is an accomplished player there is not doubt about that and one could make the guy he's as decorated as OU will find at the WB position because of the numbers he put up.
A lot of people forget Cedric Benson won 3 straight as well and yes only one of those was an j defeated season but I'd throw that 99 Midland Lee in with any of the all time greats due to Benson on offense, Clint McNutt at FB, Winston at TE, Jon Rodgers as a 2000 yard QB and Norman on defense.

I'm not as willing to chalk up the wind to that Marcus/Roosevelt game as much as I am that pass rush they were able to get with those ends and LBs that day. It was one of the all time best defenses in the history of 5A/6A football

[Farmer]

Also Murrays 43-0 record is impressive and tough to beat, but I would rank players like Adam Herrin right there with him. Herrin was a 4 year letter winner at Celina and won 3 state titles as a starting QB only losing to Pilot Point and Sanger in 1998 as the starting QB. He was also a phenomenal defensive back. Yes I know it's 2A ball but he was the one who got the greatest winning streak in Texas History started

[Greenbritches]

You all named some great teams. Those Judson and Lewisville teams were excellent (hard running games and tough-nosed defenses). Temple and Killeen were cornfed studs! The 95 Roosevelt and Marcus example was good, too. I think the weather played a factor for Roosevelt defeating the passing attack of FMM. Having said all of this, Murray went 43-0 and led Allen to three titles as a starter. He beat teams that were as potent or more potent than all of these teams. In all honesty, (2012) Houston Lamar, Mesquite, Skyline, Desoto, (2013) SLC, CHILL, Coppell, Horn, The Woodlands, Westfield, Desoto, Pearland, (2014) Guyer, Dutch Fork, Desoto, Martin, ET, Skyline are all teams that would go toe-to-toe with the teams that have been named in this thread. Murray and Allen beat them all! He never lost. I just don't see any of those teams stopping the Allen offense over the past three years, let alone in 2013.

None of the teams that you mention above had the defense that Carroll had in 2005 and while Allen's defense was great in 2013, Carroll simply had too many weapons on offense to stop.
Yes I am biased and have only seen teams live since 2005 but that is the best team I have seen play in the 10 seasons I have watched TX HSFB.

[Farmer]

Sum, you seem to have a really good grasp of teams. As a HS QB how do you think Greg McElroy stacks up as far as all time greats go? He, along with Chris Sanders are the two best I've ever seen when it comes to throwing the football

[OakTreeOut-n-Up]

Farmer, those are 2 great choices as far as guys who could make all the throws on the HS level and did it consistently. Did you see Kelan Luker play in high school? He was up there as well, and maybe even looked more superhuman at the time since he was playing 4A defenses and had Cody Cardwell. The strongest arm I've ever seen was Ryan Mallett. In pre-game goof-around throwing he did stuff that looked like CGI.

[Farmer]

Farmer, those are 2 great choices as far as guys who could make all the throws on the HS level and did it consistently. Did you see Kelan Luker play in high school? He was up there as well, and maybe even looked more superhuman at the time since he was playing 4A defenses and had Cody Cardwell. The strongest arm I've ever seen was Ryan Mallett. In pre-game goof-around throwing he did stuff that looked like CGI.

Thank you for the reminder. I did see that stephenville team play and of those teams in the 90s that one was definitely the most explosive despite the loss to Brownwood.

You're right, he would rank right up there with Sanders and McElroy.

Of all the performances I've ever seen a QB have, the first half McElroy had against I-Mac in the 05 playoffs might be the best. His only incompletion that half was a pass caught as the WR stepped out of bounds. Carroll put up 35 in that first half

[CHill]

First day of spring ball in the books 🏽
Kerry Hall IV, THA BIG WHALE and Jaylon Jones

[Farmer]

He's a good looking athlete no don't about thay. With Allen hosting Guyer, and playing in a relatively weak district, I'd expect them to beat Guyer and the team from Cocoa and crude through district

[SLCbacker]

First day of spring ball in the books 🏽
https://twitter.com/kwillhall9"]Kerry Hall IV[/URL], https://twitter.com/WILLYKALLDAY"]THA BIG WHALE[/URL] and https://twitter.com/TheJaylonJones"]Jaylon Jones[/URL]

So I'm guessing the little short guys are actually Allen kids, and not the recruits they bring in to win? Lol

[ktCarl]

IMO, Kyler Murray is the greatest football player in TXHSFB history. That team also had a massive amount of skill players at WR and RB, a D1 collegiate offensive line (maybe the best OL in TXHSFB history), and one of the best defenses in recent memory. Seriously, they averaged about 51 ppg and gave up only 18 ppg. They slaughtered the D2 champion, Cedar Hill, and beat the breaks off of pretty damn good Southlake Carroll. They also beat a Spring Westfield team that could easily compare to some of the greatest and most athletic champions in TXHSFB history (88-Carter, 85-Yates, 90-Aldine). And, then there's the tough win over a Desoto team that I would say may be the best team to not win a title. I'd put that Desoto team over any team (period) in TXHSFB history prior to the SLC teams of the mid 00's.

It's not just about D1 talent. It's also about a team that exploited other teams weaknesses and flat-out destroyed some damn good teams.

Are they the greatest? If not, who had the guns to offensively go one-on-one and a defense to stop or slow that Allen team down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9RO_Q80w6s

No way.

SLC 2005

Katy 2007 (You KNEW I would throw a Katy team in there. Just had to.)

Stratford Spartans 1978

Yates Lions 1985

[AllenEaglesFan]

Well not sure if 2013 Allen Eagles are the greatest team in TXHSFB history or not? But I sure have loved watching them as well as the 2012 & 2014 seasons. Looking for a 4peat possibly this year.

[sTp]

What about that Daingerfield team ('83 I think)?

[ktCarl]

Well not sure if 2013 Allen Eagles are the greatest team in TXHSFB history or not? But I sure have loved watching them as well as the 2012 & 2014 seasons. Looking for a 4peat possibly this year.

Anyone that follows a winning program feels the same from time to time.

[Eagle2]

Allen & Murray displayed some exciting and outstanding football that ranks up at the top with other great Texas HS football teams. As mentioned the Southlake teams were great. The '13 DeSoto defense that made a classic goal line stand against Southlake. '85 Yates & '88 Carter, Permian in its day. Earl Campbell, Cedric Benson. William Cole & Cedar Hill. Its just tough to say that Allen '13 is the greatest in history. Allen went as Murray went and what's so remarkable is that Murray was healthy the whole time, which attests to his surrounding cast. Yes Allen is one the greatest teams.

[AllenEaglesFan]

Allen & Murray displayed some exciting and outstanding football that ranks up at the top with other great Texas HS football teams. As mentioned the Southlake teams were great. The '13 DeSoto defense that made a classic goal line stand against Southlake. '85 Yates & '88 Carter, Permian in its day. Earl Campbell, Cedric Benson. William Cole & Cedar Hill. Its just tough to say that Allen '13 is the greatest in history. Allen went as Murray went and what's so remarkable is that Murray was healthy the whole time, which attests to his surrounding cast. Yes Allen is one the greatest teams.

You do realize Murray sat out one game with a sore foot which is why Murray has 42 straight wins while Allen has 43, right? Glad you got the last part right though.

[Eagle2]

You do realize Murray sat out one game with a sore foot which is why Murray has 42 straight wins while Allen has 43, right? Glad you got the last part right though.

Not important no factor. Yes realized.

[AllenEaglesFan]

Not important no factor. Yes realized.

LOL, this and one of the best defenses Allen has ever had decided a lot of games for 2013 for sure. Looking for a great defense this year with almost all the starters returning.

[Eagle2]

LOL, this and one of the best defenses Allen has ever had decided a lot of games for 2013 for sure. Looking for a great defense this year with almost all the starters returning.

A great defense it is and will be. But the question is how will this team be/respond, without (superman) the M factor & Fleener factor? Will it be dominant or just as dominant as the previous teams, or will it be just a great/good team in a weak district? That's what all are anxious and waiting to see. Time will tell and answer those questions.

[AllenEaglesFan]

The first game will tell us a lot since it is Denton Guyer August 28th @ Eagle Stadium in the Tom Landry Classic. Could be the toughest game until the playoffs? I do think the defense this year could be as good if not better then 2013?