Dynasty Dynasty Dynasty

[svhorns]

How many state championships does it take before your team can be considered a dynasty? Which is the greatest dynasty of them all?

1) Celina 1995-2008
2) Fort Han**** 1986-1992

[mojotrain]

I'll bite and then retreat. No parameters to guide?


In large class only it's Odessa Permian, Abilene and Converse Judson. Judson wins because of their record against Permian.

Including those who won championships in more than one class I'll vote plain-o Plano, SLC and KT.

The word dynasty probably denotes. a long period of time as being dominate or controlling. I didn't look it up that's just my opinion. Considering that Add Waco to the mix.

Barring a key board fist fight this topic could last till the last week of August. Now I'll sit back and watch the next 100 "what about's".

[svhorns]

I'll bite and then retreat. No parameters to guide?


In large class only it's Odessa Permian, Abilene and Converse Judson. Judson wins because of their record against Permian.

Including those who won championships in more than one class I'll vote plain-o Plano, SLC and KT.

The word dynasty probably denotes. a long period of time as being dominate or controlling. I didn't look it up that's just my opinion. Considering that Add Waco to the mix.

Barring a key board fist fight this topic could last till the last week of August. Now I'll sit back and watch the next 100 "what about's".

I didn't set any parameters because we need to figure out who was the greatest dynasty in all of Texas High School Football. This debate needs to end here and now.

[Super B]

In sports, it is generally accepted that a team is a dynasty if they win at least three championships in their league with a 2-1 years-titles ratio. So there are lots of little dyansties, but obviously some of the big ones were mentioned above.

SVH, are you looking for 5A/6A (highest classification only, or over all classifications?

[Farmer]

Everybody is going to have different criteria. There's the obvious that is listed above and then there are others not mentioned like Celina, Lake Travis, Aledo and Sealy: if you're looking at longevity then Permian from '67-'91 is going to be hard to argue against, especially with all but one of those titles coming in the 1 champion era

[svhorns]

In sports, it is generally accepted that a team is a dynasty if they win at least three championships in their league with a 2-1 years-titles ratio. So there are lots of little dyansties, but obviously some of the big ones were mentioned above.

SVH, are you looking for 5A/6A (highest classification only, or over all classifications?

I'm looking for the greatest Texas High School Football dynasty. From 1957 to 1969 the Boston Celtics won 11 of 13 NBA championships. The Boston Celtics in that time have the greatest dynasty in the NBA.

From 1964 to 1975 the UCLA men's basketball team won 10 of 12 NCAA championships, that includes 7 straight titles from 1967 to 1973. That's the greatest dynasty in all of college basketball.

First we have to determine which teams are actually considered a dynasty and from there we determine which was the greatest dynasty of all. We can seed the dynastys in a tournament bracket form and vote to finally get our answer. This is for all classifications and timeframes.

[Farmer]

Let me throw out Celina.

1995-2008 they won 7 state titles including 4 in a row from '98-01. During that time they appeared in 9 title games and won a state record 68 straight games. This time frame saw them win titles in both 2A and 3A. They also won 10+ games a year from 1995 through 2008

[svhorns]

I'll keep a rolling list of dynastys in the first post of this thread.

[svhorns]

Let me throw out Celina.

1995-2008 they won 7 state titles including 4 in a row from '98-01. During that time they appeared in 9 title games and won a state record 68 straight games. This time frame saw them win titles in both 2A and 3A. They also won 10+ games a year from 1995 through 2008

Good stuff farmer. Exactly what I'm looking for.

[mojotrain]

I didn't set any parameters because we need to figure out who was the greatest dynasty in all of Texas High School Football. This debate needs to end here and now.

That's a task you won't complete without specific parameters. It's been tried before by brilliance equal to yours perhaps even greater. For beginners one would think in a big school segment it could be exclusive to big schools. Now end it here if you wish!

[svhorns]

That's a task you won't complete without specific parameters. It's been tried before by brilliance equal to yours perhaps even greater. For beginners one would think in a big school segment it could be exclusive to big schools. Now end it here if you wish!

Mojo it can and will be done right here on this site. Classifications will not be an issue. Classifications were created to level the playing field. If a 2a team won 8 straight in 2a that's just as special if a 6a team would have accomplished the same feat.

[mojotrain]

Ok then. For your consideration I'll submit Fort Han****. S C in 86, 88, 89, 90 and 91. Four in a row which included 70 wins in a row.
No doubt in my mind that if you say it will be done then it will be done. You have the steering wheel but it will still be an opinion.

[nsalumni]

ALLEN EAGLES! THE ONLY TEAM TO DO IT FAIR!!!

[svhorns]

Ok then. For your consideration I'll submit Fort Han****. S C in 86, 88, 89, 90 and 91. Four in a row which included 70 wins in a row.
No doubt in my mind that if you say it will be done then it will be done. You have the steering wheel but it will still be an opinion.

Good info mojo. Do you know have any info on '87? Did they make it to the title game?

[svhorns]

I would say it's important in this discussion to also include what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final. A team should be penalized more if they failed to make the playoffs or lost in the first round then a team who lost in the state final. Consistency is key here.

[Farmer]

I would say it's important in this discussion to also include what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final. A team should be penalized more if they failed to make the playoffs or lost in the first round then a team who lost in the state final. Consistency is key here.

For Celina the years they didn't win state

'96 - 11-1 area finalist
'97 - 11-3 quarter finalist
'02 - 11-1 area finalist, record 68 game win streak broken by Daingerfield when Celina missed an XP in the final seconds of the 4th losing 21-20 I believe
'03 - 10-2 area finalist
'04 - 13-1 quarterfinalist, lost to state champion Crawford
'06 - 15-1 state finalist
'08 - 12-4 state finalist

Celina won their district every year from 95-08 with the exception of 1998, 2003 and 2008

[mojotrain]

Good info mojo. Do you know have any info on '87? Did they make it to the title game?

No but they did Make it to the final game in 92.in 92

[SLC13]

I would say it's important in this discussion to also include what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final. A team should be penalized more if they failed to make the playoffs or lost in the first round then a team who lost in the state final. Consistency is key here.

Some of this is before my time but here are the highlights for SLC.

SLC football really came into its own starting in the 1986 season. Over the 29 year period 1986-2014 the Dragons have:

• Won 8 State championships, losing only once.
• Appeared in 5 straight state championship games, winning 4.
• Been a State Semi-finalist 4 other times.
• Won 20 district championships in 29 years.
• Won 49 consecutive games (2004-2007) and 72 consecutive regular season games (1986-1993)
• Have missed the PO’s only 2 times in 29 years.
• Since joining the state’s highest classification in 2002, SLC is 171-17 with 10 or more wins in every season except 2008.

[Eagle82]

SLC's stats are very impressive and while Eagle fans may not like this comment, they (SLC) probably let one on the table in 2007 though without Dodge, not sure how they would have done against Katy.

Small school ball doesn't get the name recognition around the country that big school does, therefore Mojo is a name that is very recognizable, sure due to the movie but their dominance during the latter part of the century.

Celina, well Moore is a legend and did wonders there as well as Pilot Point.

[mojotrain]

You can slice and dice this any way you wish. Make it encompass specific decades or multiple decades It still come out the same.
The only detractors would be Permian Started out big. They started out in a district that had won state championships in 1954, 55, 56 and 1966. They didn't play small ball, ever. And for the first 24 years of the 30 year span their dominance covers only the district champion advanced to the playoffs.

30 years from 1965 through 1995.

Won the district Championship 21 years out of 30 years.
Played in the state semi- finals 16 times. (that means on average, Permian was in the semis every other year)
Played in the finals 11 times (that means on average, Permian was in the final game every 3 years)
Won 6 state championships.
Won 2 national championships.

Another bit of useless information I'll throw in in case someone thinks they belong on the same page as Permian. From 1965 through 1985 Permian threw 81 shutouts in 268 games. I'll add edit tomorrow and add in from 1985 to 1995.

From1965-96 Permian never had a losing season. Their record during that time was 350-48-12 for a 86.8 winning percentage Only 9 times during that time frame did they fail to make the playoffs and even during those none playoff years their record was 68-18-3.

[mojotrain]

SLC's stats are very impressive and while Eagle fans may not like this comment, they (SLC) probably let one on the table in 2007 though without Dodge, not sure how they would have done against Katy.

Small school ball doesn't get the name recognition around the country that big school does, therefore Mojo is a name that is very recognizable, sure due to the movie but their dominance during the latter part of the century.

Celina, well Moore is a legend and did wonders there as well as Pilot Point.

I dare say that had it not been for Gene Mayfield Permian would have been average. He started it and IMO the rest were smart enough to do not much more than tweek.

Yes, Permian made the movie. The movie didn't make Permian. Bissinger didn't come to town on the hope that could make a fortune on the writing of a book concerning the possible ill treatment of a black football player. His original intent was to see why a no name, red-necked laden town was slobber knocking the rest of Texas, when Texas was clearly, hands down this Nations epicenter of schoolboy football.

[mojotrain]

Glad Converse Judson isn't taking part.

[Farmer]

You can slice and dice this any way you wish. Make it encompass specific decades or multiple decades It still come out the same.
The only detractors would be Permian Started out big. They started out in a district that had won state championships in 1954, 55, 56 and 1966. They didn't play small ball, ever. And for the first 24 years of the 30 year span their dominance covers only the district champion advanced to the playoffs.

30 years from 1965 through 1995.

Won the district Championship 21 years out of 30 years.
Played in the state semi- finals 16 times. (that means on average, Permian was in the semis every other year)
Played in the finals 11 times (that means on average, Permian was in the final game every 3 years)
Won 6 state championships.
Won 2 national championships.

Another bit of useless information I'll throw in in case someone thinks they belong on the same page as Permian. From 1965 through 1985 Permian threw 81 shutouts in 268 games. I'll add edit tomorrow and add in from 1985 to 1995.

I'll add to this for you, Permian did the bulk of this, all but 2 years, when there was only 1 state champion in Texas. Also during this time there were years when only one team per district made the playoffs. That's what was so impressive about Permians run when compared to the other great runs in this state.

[Farmer]

I dare say that had it not been for Gene Mayfield Permian would have been average. He started it and IMO the rest were smart enough to do not much more than tweek.

Yes, Permian made the movie. The movie didn't make Permian. Bissinger didn't come to town on the hope that could make a fortune on the writing of a book concerning the possible ill treatment of a black football player. His original intent was to see why a no name, red-necked laden town was slobber knocking the rest of Texas, when Texas was clearly, hands down this Nations epicenter of schoolboy football.

Mayfield and Bartosh got it going and Wilkins came in and built on that and really turned it up a notch. Of all programs in college or high school that I've read about, the Permian one always stood out to me and was the most impressive one.
Watching you guys in 1992 beat Lewisville 28-0 in the 3rd round was a thing of beauty. Just wish that ice storm hadn't hit the next week when you guys played Amarillo.

[mojotrain]

I would say it's important in this discussion to also include what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final. A team should be penalized more if they failed to make the playoffs or lost in the first round then a team who lost in the state final. Consistency is key here.

You penalize the teams who didn't win district before 1990. And that will cover the first 25 years of Permian's 30 year dynasty Before then it was only the district winner advanced to the play off.. Permian strayed home with only a single district loss, Permian stayed home with only one district loss and a single tie and Permian, Permian stayed home with a single tie being the only hicky.

The idea of "what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final" simply overwhelms me. So I'll make it simple for me and if it requires any more stats than this and what I've already contributed, so be it. It's a mess I had more sense to get into anyhow. Then again,maybe not.

In the 30 year window that I offer up as THE DYNASTY but excluding the years Permian stayed home with only one district. Here is what she did.

Won the district championship 21 times.
Won the bi-district championship 21 times
Won the area championship 10 times
Won the regional championship 18 times
Won the quarter-finals 16 times
Won the semifinals 11 times

More useless information. 115 shutouts during this period

[Farmer]

You penalize the teams who didn't win district before 1990. And that will cover the first 25 years of Permian's 30 year dynasty Before then it was only the district winner advanced to the play off.. Permian strayed home with only a single district loss, Permian stayed home with only one district loss and a single tie and Permian, Permian stayed home with a single tie being the only hicky.

The idea of "what happened in the years these teams didn't win a state final" simply overwhelms me. So I'll make it simple for me and if it requires any more stats than this and what I've already contributed, so be it. It's a mess I had more sense to get into anyhow. Then again,maybe not.

In the 30 year window that I offer up as THE DYNASTY but excluding the years Permian stayed home with only one district. Here is what she did.

Won the district championship 21 times.
Won the bi-district championship 21 times
Won the area championship 10 times
Won the regional championship 18 times
Won the quarter-finals 16 times
Won the semifinals 11 times

More useless information. 115 shutouts during this period

I never realized so many shutouts were pitched. That's dang impressive.
I think I get your point. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that the 1 champion era can not be compared to the watered down system we have had since 1990?

I wouldn't argue against that. I think you stated very well the accomplishments of Permian in a time when only 1 team won a title and for the majority of that, only 1 team per district made the playoffs.

I always love reading your stuff train. You are a wealth of knowledge and an asset to any site you post on.

[mojotrain]

I never realized so many shutouts were pitched. That's dang impressive.
I think I get your point. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that the 1 champion era can not be compared to the watered down system we have had since 1990?

I wouldn't argue against that. I think you stated very well the accomplishments of Permian in a time when only 1 team won a title and for the majority of that, only 1 team per district made the playoffs.

I always love reading your stuff train. You are a wealth of knowledge and an asset to any site you post on.

Farmer that is a point. It's no more than a guess what any team in that era might have done if allowed to continue on into the playoffs. The same reason that those who love the diluted system of today by using a talking point such as, a team should get a second chance because of a key injury left a player on the sideline in a critical game held no validity back then.

Farmer, thanks for recognition but I must tell you, although I went to where I said I've gone, although I've seen what I said I've seen, at 76 much of the football matter just doesn't pop out of my head as it once did. Some of my post I pull from a hay bale sized bundle of printed matter. My greatest problem now is remembering where to find it. I've stated before, I'm far from unique in Permian football knowledge. There are a dozen or more old timers who know just as much. Some sit and watch Permian practices with me.

[ktCarl]

How many state championships does it take before your team can be considered a dynasty? Which is the greatest dynasty of them all?

1) Celina 1995-2008
2) Fort Han**** 1986-1992

At least 10 years.

[King_Curtis]

Richland Springs form 2004 to 2012.

[cougmantx]

Let me throw out Celina.

1995-2008 they won 7 state titles including 4 in a row from '98-01. During that time they appeared in 9 title games and won a state record 68 straight games. This time frame saw them win titles in both 2A and 3A. They also won 10+ games a year from 1995 through 2008

I'd agree but by those criteria it's hard to argue that Katy isn't a dynasty. Not that you were (yet) but from 1997 to present they have won 6 state championships and play in 14 state games against at least one team some would consider a dynasty (SLC). Personally, the state game that Katy played in that I got the most satisfaction out of was 2008 against Wylie. :-)